- Thread starter SantiagoDR
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Poor vs Rich
Was just in Rio De Janerio , and there the rich live below and the poor live on the hills, same in Peru. Perhaps he's pointing out the difference.
Of what , the gilded cages the rich live in, and the relative freedom of the poor?
I don't even see that, they are not good examples of any definition, nor massive divide. The solid homes just look like working class apartments blocks and the valley floor are living in older homes, with less modern methods of construction and material. The rich doesn't look rich nor the poor, poor.
Did you have the opportunity to go inside a favela?
Some of the best views overlooking all of Rio with the poorest of poor, except maybe the "businessmen" living inside!
Communications: The key to understanding.
Seen the same thing in Caracas and I inquired as to why.
The answer was that there were no roads to the houses higher up, therefore only the poop people lived there. They would throw their trash out the down side of the house creating triangles of garbage leading away from the house.
Of course, that's what's known as poor, that's all they can afford!
Perhaps by zooming in the images will get through the thick rose color glasses, nope, it won't help, helplessly blind...
Lots of "Old" new construction going on.
That's a bit harsh!
Trust me, that was purely a TYPO... :speechles
Still have the problem with Firefox where typing is all one line and when at the right hand side it can get confusing on what all that has been typed.
I think it's time to abandon Firefox until they fix that and go over to Internet Explorer.
Once participated in a UN-backed Human Development study and accompanied the researcher who had to seek out and visit the poorest neighborhoods in La Romana. One of these poor areas had developed practically on top of an abandoned garbage dump to the north of the main part of the city. If I had not known it was a garbage dump, would not have noticed. I was impressed by the most beautiful views of the sea the people who lived there had. It was prime real estate had it been anywhere else. The destitute poor had the best views in the city.
that is a very common phenomenon in POP. some of the poorest areas have the wildest views.
Most of my neighbours in La Caleta own this kind of home. We can all se them from our wondows. Second homes for most, very poor environment and the land stolen from an old lady whos husband had died. The land is lush and pretty, it used to be my view until over the space of a month the plots were taken over by the stronger people of the barrio. The younger and more willing to fight taking the prime locations which they felt were the roadside plots. Our local Colmado owner and public governer/director for Duarte became chairman of a housing association that was created over night, by the people, for the people, and stolen from the people. To this day now the houses have gone up and they go up within a few days to a week, everyone helps each other put theirs up and the favour goes around.
Then those who do not have the funds to put a concrete floor in sell them for anything from RD4,000 to RD25,000. I was offered all of those for sale.
The old lady whos land it is brought in the police to move these hundreds of people who had hijacked her land, and my view, there were running clashes with the police, shot guns and smoke things were used, rubber bullets ad a few days of a great lil old stand off. The press came, they told the press that they had always lived there and therefor owned the grounds. The one man who spoke out, the old ladies brother got a machete in his head the following morning around 8.30, I remember watching the confrontation from my roof.
They have taken the land, no one can or is willing to try to prove that they had not lived there for the last 25 years, and so the little old lady lost all her land and everyone else has a new means of bargaining. So is life in the poor barrios. Good and bad people, a very ruthless dangerous place, and yes, very different from living where there is a moral balance, a respect for the law, education or even a little money.
Little by little the permanent development will grow, and all with no papers or legal rights to anything. After all, the land these places are built on are always stolen from someone.
Then those who do not have the funds to put a concrete floor in sell them for anything from RD4,000 to RD25,000. I was offered all of those for sale.
The old lady whos land it is brought in the police to move these hundreds of people who had hijacked her land, and my view, there were running clashes with the police, shot guns and smoke things were used, rubber bullets ad a few days of a great lil old stand off. The press came, they told the press that they had always lived there and therefor owned the grounds. The one man who spoke out, the old ladies brother got a machete in his head the following morning around 8.30, I remember watching the confrontation from my roof.
They have taken the land, no one can or is willing to try to prove that they had not lived there for the last 25 years, and so the little old lady lost all her land and everyone else has a new means of bargaining. So is life in the poor barrios. Good and bad people, a very ruthless dangerous place, and yes, very different from living where there is a moral balance, a respect for the law, education or even a little money.
Little by little the permanent development will grow, and all with no papers or legal rights to anything. After all, the land these places are built on are always stolen from someone.
My wife's grandfather had his land stolen in a similar manner. My wife's half-sisters and brothers wanted her to get a lawyer and fight for it. She figured by the time they divided it up, if they ever got it back she would end up with about 500 sq metres or less, so she declined.
In other countries, any attempt by homeless/poor people to build anything resembling a hut/house would be met by strict enforcement. The attempt is quickly dismantled and the person arrested/fined/jailed.
In the DR, nobody is truly homeless. If they can gather some pieces of anything and put a roof over it, it becomes home.
Poverty is so in your face because of this in countries like DR. Not so much in developed nations.
But believe it or not, there are more homeless people any given day in the streets of countries like the U.S. to name one, than the DR in one decade.
Poverty is defined by a set of standards today in developed countries over what they use to gauge them in developing ones.
To make an example: You can have a person living in the heart of a city like Boston or NY, in a nice apartment by today's RE. Yet that person didn't make the cut for food stamp assistance, having lost part of their net income to lost hours at work. Poor savings/overburdened by debt and unable to gain a second job. This person can meet his bills for rent, electrical service and other basics, yet can't hardly eat more than one meal a day consisting of a twinkie with a pop soda.
Then you have a farmer living in a campito of the DR. With his own home built from wood, tin roof and outside letrina. Very old and weathered home. No savings, no car, no TV, no nothing. Yet this guy can afford to eat well, based on his own conuco and farm.
Who's the poor guy?
Keep in mind most of the people that built homes in occupied land or public ones, DON'T pay a penny in rent. Forget an utility bill other than the fixed tab which is a joke. How many people in the DR had lived that phase? Then they have moved up the economic level?
Poverty in developing nations is tricky. It all depends on other dynamics that one must understand before making the easy call.
The DR has a growing middle class, and an even faster growing upper middle class than any other time.
This is what will take place in the next 3 or 4 decades in the DR:
As the land title system is vetted and cleared of old tricks, the ones sitting in the cities will be the new middle class. The farmer will become the upper class based on land value. Lands today used for nothing, once gentrification moves to the outer rings of cities, will become the must-have parcels for development of tomorrow.
Pristine views of valleys and mountains will command top $$$.
In the DR, nobody is truly homeless. If they can gather some pieces of anything and put a roof over it, it becomes home.
Poverty is so in your face because of this in countries like DR. Not so much in developed nations.
But believe it or not, there are more homeless people any given day in the streets of countries like the U.S. to name one, than the DR in one decade.
Poverty is defined by a set of standards today in developed countries over what they use to gauge them in developing ones.
To make an example: You can have a person living in the heart of a city like Boston or NY, in a nice apartment by today's RE. Yet that person didn't make the cut for food stamp assistance, having lost part of their net income to lost hours at work. Poor savings/overburdened by debt and unable to gain a second job. This person can meet his bills for rent, electrical service and other basics, yet can't hardly eat more than one meal a day consisting of a twinkie with a pop soda.
Then you have a farmer living in a campito of the DR. With his own home built from wood, tin roof and outside letrina. Very old and weathered home. No savings, no car, no TV, no nothing. Yet this guy can afford to eat well, based on his own conuco and farm.
Who's the poor guy?
Keep in mind most of the people that built homes in occupied land or public ones, DON'T pay a penny in rent. Forget an utility bill other than the fixed tab which is a joke. How many people in the DR had lived that phase? Then they have moved up the economic level?
Poverty in developing nations is tricky. It all depends on other dynamics that one must understand before making the easy call.
The DR has a growing middle class, and an even faster growing upper middle class than any other time.
This is what will take place in the next 3 or 4 decades in the DR:
As the land title system is vetted and cleared of old tricks, the ones sitting in the cities will be the new middle class. The farmer will become the upper class based on land value. Lands today used for nothing, once gentrification moves to the outer rings of cities, will become the must-have parcels for development of tomorrow.
Pristine views of valleys and mountains will command top $$$.
Nice spin but what about the people whos land has been stolen and is being stolen right now?
How wonderful the DR is, NOT.
I trust you will not mind when your parents property they leave to you in their will is quickly moved onto/into and your inheritance is stolen from you, and nothing you can do about it, your own personal donation to the Dominican homeless of a few hundred thousand dollars, you're so caring.
I'm not sure where you were going with the above but it appears you are defending the right to take property because you are homeless and how the DR is wonderful for allowing this and is a bonus to society. If not then I got the wrong end of the stick.
How wonderful the DR is, NOT.
I trust you will not mind when your parents property they leave to you in their will is quickly moved onto/into and your inheritance is stolen from you, and nothing you can do about it, your own personal donation to the Dominican homeless of a few hundred thousand dollars, you're so caring.
I'm not sure where you were going with the above but it appears you are defending the right to take property because you are homeless and how the DR is wonderful for allowing this and is a bonus to society. If not then I got the wrong end of the stick.
i agree with A29. this is not rich/poor juxtaposition. what separates the two is maybe 15k pesos a month per working adult. ma and pa below make 20 to 25k pesos a month put together. ma and pa who live a bit higher up pull 50k pesos a month. the one with lower income rides a pasola and the one with higher income has a 2001 honda. they both barely make the ends meet and half of the money they bring goes to prestamos. one pays the colmado and the other one pays the car.
this is the poor:
and this is humilde vivienda of miguel crybaby vargas, who's not even cream of the crop of DR:
this is the poor:
and this is humilde vivienda of miguel crybaby vargas, who's not even cream of the crop of DR:
this is the poor:
20 to 25k pesos a month for ma and pa below- you're joking, right?
Check out your local Banca, ask the girl working there 7 days a week how much she gets gross a month. In Santiago it's about $6,000-$6,500 the last I heard. Then subtract the transportation costs she pays per month to get to and from "work". You're also assuming the majority of those living "below" have jobs.
I have not been in any of the homes that was shown in the pictures I posted, but I'm betting the low placed homes are very similar to the same as show in your first photo. As a matter of fact the interior photo looks very similar to the "home" my wife lived in with her parents when I first met her.
Also, as a matter of fact I HAVE been in another similar encampment in Cienfuego and the interiors are about the same as your first photo. Sheets and cardboard separating the interior.
Minus the water and the trees, your second photo is the same as mine basically.
Is that from the flood created in Santiago when they opened the flood gates of the Tavera dam during Tropical Storm Olga in December 2007 which led to the deaths of dozens of people in surrounding areas? I was there, it's very close to where I live, walking distance, I took many photos and posted them on DR1.
Tell you what, come on over and let's go ask the people in each of the areas what they think financially of the other.
I take little stock from the "knows it all" folks that often have never been outside ex-pat areas except in or on motorized vehicles. Visiting relatives, places with your Dominican partner/friend also does not count towards "Seeing" the country. Boots on the ground solo else it's just rose colored glasses!
Following is same encampment as my other screen shots... "Home Sweet Home"...
With Indoor Plumbing!
